4E Power Build: Righteous Stormlord

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:05 pm

Summary

Warlord|Cleric/Fighter/Infernal Strategist 17
Starting Stats:
STR: 18 CON: 10 DEX: 14 INT: 8 WIS: 14 CHA: 15

Current Stats:
STR: 22 CON: 11 DEX: 15 INT: 9 WIS: 15 CHA: 19

AC: 31 Fort: 28 Ref: 25 Will: 26
Hit Points: 96
Healing Surge Value: 23
Healing Surges: 7
Speed: 5
Init: +15
Basic Attack: +21, 1d8+18 damage (1d8+22 when flanking)

Feats

1 Battle Awareness
2 Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Shield)
4 Weapon Expertise (Spear)
6 Power of Skill (Deity: Ioun)
8 Hybrid Talent (Tactical Presence: Resourceful)
10 Mark of Storm
11 Polearm Momentum
12 Polearm Gamble
14 Reserve Manuever (Provoke Overextension (W))
16 Weapon Focus (Spear)

Magic Items

10: +2 Lightning Spear (sell previous equipment to afford a salve of power, too)
11: 2 salves of power (scrounge up another 1000 gold pieces from somewhere)
12: Salve of Power, +3 Braidmail Armor
13: Paragon Siberys Shard of Radiance
14: Crown of the Brilliant Sun
15: Lightning Spear
16: Paragon Iron Armbands of Power
17: Iron Ring of the Dwarf Lords, +3 Timeless Amulet, Salve of Power, Strikeback Gloves

Powers

At-Will Powers:
1: Righteous Brand (C)
1: Opening Shove (W) (needless to say, we won't be using this very much)

Encounter Powers:
1: Hammer and Anvil (W) --> Retrained to Diabolic Strategem (W) at level 7
3: Sacred Shielding (C) --> Replaced with Arc of the Righteous (C) at level 13
7: Provoke Overextension (W) --> Retrained to Hammer and Anvil (W) at level 14 --> Replaced with Hail of Steel (W) at level 17
11: Deceiver's Ploy (PP) --> Permanently Swapped with Provoke Overextension (W) at level 14.

Utility Powers:
2: Shield of Faith (C)
6: Dragon's Tenacity (W)
10: Instant Planning (W)
12: Flexible Authority (PP)
16: Side-by-Side (W)

Daily Powers:
1: Moment of Glory (C)
5: Staggering Spin (W)
9: Scent of Victory (W) --> Replaced with War Master's Assault at level 15

Class Features

Combat Leader (+2 init bonus to buddies)
Healer's Lore (+2 bonus to divine healing powers)
Resourceful Commanding Presence (1/encounter)
Inspiring Word (1/encounter)
Healing Word (1/encounter)
Hybrid Warlord Fortitude
Felling Action (burns an action point for an ally reroll; won't be using this)
Infernal Pincer (grants +4 damage to allies that flank)
Pliable Command (Bravura -- this is unlimited due to the wording of the paragon path)

Strategy

This character is designed to nova and assist others with the nova while functioning as a backup healer; while the character is function as a primary healer, they are not as efficient as a post-Divine Power razor cleric dedicated to the task. This build functions most efficiently if the entire party is specced for melee, though it can tolerate one ranged party member if said member is worthwhile in a way that misses out on the damage spike--so far, only a wizard meets this criteria.

There are two major 'cores' to the build. The first is the use of the cleric power 'Righteous Brand', which our character will always use when given the option of taking a melee attack thanks to the feat granted by the Skill Domain. Polearm Gamble is designed to use this option as much as possible.

The second one is its use of Polearm Momentum in conjunction with his or her Lightning Spear. The Mark of Storm feat allows a character who strikes with a Lightning or Thunder power to slide an enemy one square. The Rushing Cleats allow a character who slides an opponent with a melee or close weapon power to slide the target an additional square. The Polearm Momentum feat sends an enemy prone if they are pushed or slid with a polearm or spear 2 or more squares. This means that every attack this character makes starting at level 11 will slide an enemy two squares and knock them prone.

But those are just core competencies; the real heart and soul of this build is to allow 'novas'. That is, cause damage spikes. At low levels, this is done with the Battle Awareness feat alongside Righteous Brand. However, starting at level 7 they will get a new core tactic that will be used every fight if possible.

Diabolic Strategem allows you and your allies to make melee attacks as opportunity actions if an enemy attacks you as an effect of the power. Of course, the enemy will be aware of this and will try to avoid attacking you. Your response is to unveil your power Provoke Overextension, which forces the enemy to attack you. In addition to the attack granted by Provoke Overextension, which if used to force a mark violation will be 3 attacks in its own, if Diabolic Strategem was used earlier in an all-melee group of average size this can lead to as many as 5 extra attacks, for a total of 8 attacks at the expenditure of two encounter points and an action point.

Yes, you will need an action point, sadly, since it is two encounter powers. The Timeless Locket's extra standard action is invaluable for this purpose.

Hail of Steel is a similar attack, allowing, if it hits, another 5 attack assault from the party. Arc of Righteousness is a simple, basic attack that merely allows two attacks that can be used on the same foe. It gets replaced with a much, much better one at level 23. Until then, grin and bear it.

The dailies were chosen in much the same way. Moment of Glory, despite being a 'filler' power to satisfy the requirements of Hybrid Classing, is useful throughout the character's entire career. They are chosen to allow novas much like the the encounter powers.

Infernal Strategist was chosen for the valuable flanking bonus to damage for you and your allies, the very useful encounter power which grants bonuses when an ally uses an action point, a daily power that grants an action point such that we can complete the five-encounter workday 'Diabolic Strategem + Provoke Overextension' combination, and its level 16 class feature which permanently grants a tactical presence. The hybrid version, even with the Hybrid Training feat, only allows the use of such a talent once an encounter when an ally spends an action point (why?). Pliable Command obviates this, allowing characters to use and abuse the Bravura Tactical presence--not only useful for Provoke Overextension, but also allows allies another possible attack when action points are spent.

This build is very hurting for healing surges, which is why it is very recommended to go easy on the salves of power. At least until the character can obtain a L21 Ring of Tenacious Will (AV, page 161), which allows the character to use charisma instead of constitution for healing surges, instantly giving 5 more healing surges. Until then, it is recommended that you spend both ring slots on L14 Iron Rings of the Dwarf Lord.

The character will continue to take powers that allow his or herself and allies to make as many attacks as possible. Beacon of Doom (a delayed, but still deadly nova power) will replace Moment of Glory at level 19, for example, Rush of Battle will be the level 22 utility power. Mortal Terror will (finally) replace Arc of the Righteous at level 23 to take most advantage of allies' opportunity attacks. Note that teleportation will not help since the power specifies a movement.

This character is poised to take the epic destiny 'Deadly Trickster' at level 21, assuming that they take take a Skill Focus feat to learn the Bluff Skill. Deadly Trickster is an excellent epic destiny for this build, since it hands out precious rerolls, gives the opportunity to replenish encounter and daily powers with a roll of 18-20, with the piece de resistance coming at level 26: Epic Trick will let our characters and the party nova like never before. Levels 23 through 26 should be focused on retraining all utility powers to dailies.

The character starts with an odd stat in charisma. That's unfortunately unavoidable. This character was designed to be functional from level 1 up, which means waiting over 20 levels to perform its core trick is inexcusable; if the character was starting in epic tier then wisdom and dexterity could be dropped to 13 and charisma boosted accordingly.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:03 pm

If you're not interested in polearm shenanigans, however, you can always just snag a Githyanki Silvered Rapier, start with a 20 in strength and 16 in charisma, get a headband of intellect, and the Nimble Blade feat. That's a +4 bonus to attack over the spear guy, which means that you hit people of your level on a 5 or better.

shau · Post by **shau** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:21 pm

This looked pretty bad when I first glanced at it, but it actually works out better than I expected, although it somewhat depends on you finding a team of all melee guys, something I have never seen. A few thoughts.

First of all I never looked up the hybrid class rules and they do not seem to be available in the Char builder. I'll assume you are doing it. Apologies in advance if my advice is illegal.

My Character builder also does not have infernal strategist or hybrid talent.

I can't get your build to work right. I have to lower dex by one for a legal character. If you do that and then put your first point into dex instead of charisma it works for me.

At level one you are doing a lot better than I expected. You have righteous brand, which pretty much makes you the top of the heap warlord wise. Razor clerics probably have a point of strength on you, but at lest you have a trident. Battle Awareness and Hammer and Anvil let's you bust out multiple attacks every encounter. That Bravura Presence thing can also really help, especially at this level. And of course you have a (somewhat weak) healing and inspiring word to throw around.

I am not sure if Moment of Glory is going to work out for you. I think you need to actually hit with it to get the DR. You will have a plus 2 to hit, which might be enough at this level, but is still going to miss a lot. That's bad, because you only have one of those at this point and Moment of Glory is one of the best. If you get the DR even on a miss, or if find a way to hit with it, you pretty much have a back up shtick of win one encounter a day and that's awesome.

I usually look again at level 6 but that's kinda an awkward level for you. Let's move to level 7 for a better comparison. Power of skill let's you make your battle awareness attack an extra Righteous brand. You just picked up the whole Diabolical strategy gangbang thing you wanted. Unfortunately, you can only use t with an action point, so you have to sue that every mile stone, which I think translates to every odd battle. Staggering spin has a similar effect and will probably be what you use on the second encounter. I don't know what you are planning for the fourth, but I don't think there is any chance Moment of Glory hits anymore.

I'm not sure if the whole combo you thought up will work as well as it looks on paper. Keep in mind you need an all melee team and you all have to be surrounding the enemy for this to work right. I admit I frequently see 4e teams all surround an enemy, but generally at that point he is almost dead. In theory its stronger than Rain of Blows, but I think you are going to spend a lot of time hammering mostly defeated opponents into gibs.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I also would suggest taking Consecrated Ground here. I don't know how it works with hybriding, but you have the cha for it and you kinda ignore healing in this build. That will help a lot of with the healing, plus as previously mentioned it is like the most awesomest thing ever. Also, there are good things to steal at Cleric utility six.

At level 12, you finally have your polearm stuff online, and the rest of the table figures out what the fuck you were doing. Now Righteous Brand gives out a plus five to hit and additional plus 2 to hit prone bonus, which is good. It is also going to be a real dick move when combined with Battle Awareness and especially Polearm Gamble. Be sure to argue that specific trumps general and that gamble gives you unlimited opportunity attacks. I want to see if any DM will let you be immune to melee combat. Not much else happening except you get whatever you PP offers. I am pretty sure you picked up scent of victory just to piss me off. Seriously, if you grab a level 5 daily at level 9, its consecrated ground.

At level 17 you have what you laid out in the Op. Hail of Steel and your combo means lots of pain to surrounded opponents, though I still do not know if it will work as well as you think. Either way you went from being able to do that every other encounter to having three ways to do it (combo, staggering spin, hail of steel). Any thing you surround should be dead.

Questions at the end. Why are you hoarding salves of power? Staggering spin? Seriously I think you have more of those than you have abilities to use daily items. I am guessing Lightning spear at level 15 should be Lightning spear +3? What exactly is it you do with spiked shields? I know you have some sort of trick there, but I don't know what it is.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:51 am

shau wrote: First of all I never looked up the hybrid class rules and they do not seem to be available in the Char builder. I'll assume you are doing it. Apologies in advance if my advice is illegal.

My Character builder also does not have infernal strategist or hybrid talent.

What date is yours? The updated hybrid classing rules were used in the July issue. Once you do that, select the 'hybrid' class from the class section.

You can't get Infernal Strategist without selecting the Hybrid Talent feat (which will be in the Class Feats). After you do that, you need to select 'Commanding Presence' then 'Resourceful Warlord' back in the Class tab.

Starting stats:
STR: 16 (18) DEX: 14 CON: 10 WIS: 14 INT: 8 CHA: 13. I already talked about the 13 charisma thing.

I don't use Consecrated Ground. If you really want to cheese that much then take that as your level 5 daily and at level 15 replace your level 1 warlord daily with something else; I put it in the same category as Orb of Imposition.

You don't need to hit with Moment of Glory. It's in the Effect line, so it goes off regardless. You don't even need a holy symbol for it to work.

As far as the Provoke Overreach/Diabolical Strategem thing goes, you need a Timeless Locket (AV2). It has a daily power that lets you take an extra standard action as a minor action. Then you'll be able to pull the trick for 4 encounters out of a 5 encounter workday.

I don't see what's so bad about level 6. It's a good level; it has a utility power that gives me a +3 bonus to attack until the end of my next turn as a minor action. It also gives the same bonus to bloodied allies, but it's really designed for me.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I also would suggest taking Consecrated Ground here. I don't know how it works with hybriding, but you have the cha for it and you kinda ignore healing in this build.

I mentioned that this character isn't a healer; he's a force multiplier. You will still need another primary healer/attacker in the party to get the most out of your surges. Which means that you need to have a melee artificer, a melee bard, or a razor cleric.

shau wrote: It is also going to be a real dick move when combined with Battle Awareness and especially Polearm Gamble. Be sure to argue that specific trumps general and that gamble gives you unlimited opportunity attacks. I want to see if any DM will let you be immune to melee combat.

Gah, I fucked up. You can't use Polearm gamble with a spear; just Polearm Momentum. I'll have to nix the Spiked Shield shenanigans--which lets me grab a greatspear instead. At least it's a higher damage die, reach, and a +1 to attack.

Anyway, here are the Spiked Shield shenanigans; you can get a Spiked Shield with the Weapon Proficiency feat. It functions as both a weapon and a light shield, giving you a +1 shield bonus to AC and reflex. There is the Rhythm Blade property in the AV2 (level 3 item) which as a property you can put on a light blade or heavy blade increases any shield bonus you get by 1.

So it's just like having a heavy shield, only it doesn't cost you an extra feat. Just one. Of course, it's at the cost of having a magical shield property, but you were going to use your arms slot item for an Iron Armbands of Power anyway.

So if you want your warlord to focus more on defense, you could go with a Githyanki Silver Bastard/Longsword (for the psychic property), get a headband of Intellect (for a +1 item bonus to attack rolls with powers with the psychic keyword) and a Rhythm Blade in the other hand. For your missing feats you could get Nimble Blade, Light Shield Proficiency (hybrid clerics/warlords lose shield proficiency), and Shield Mastery in paragon. Or Mark of Healing.

Questions at the end. Why are you hoarding salves of power? Staggering spin? Seriously I think you have more of those than you have abilities to use daily items.

In paragon tier, for a five-encounter workday you should have four magical item dailies.

I had four of them for those workdays in which you have two or more skill challenges, obviating your need to use your Timeless Locket property.

Of course, I have never participated in nor run any D&D game of any edition that has gone for five encounters, so you're right it's mostly a waste of money.

shau · Post by **shau** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:03 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:
What date is yours? The updated hybrid classing rules were used in the July issue. Once you do that, select the 'hybrid' class from the class section.

Well fuck me. I didn't expect it to be be wedged between assassin and monk. I thought it would be something you select after the first class.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:
Starting stats:
STR: 16 (18) DEX: 14 CON: 10 WIS: 14 INT: 8 CHA: 13. I already talked about the 13 charisma thing.

My bad, I forgot to dump Int.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:
I don't use Consecrated Ground. If you really want to cheese that much then take that as your level 5 daily and at level 15 replace your level 1 warlord daily with something else; I put it in the same category as Orb of Imposition.

Fair enough. I really don't think is consecrated ground is all that bad if you don't exploit it. Just leave it be until the team is close to being TPK, then use it to keep the game from ending. Its unique in that it is even more powerful than sleep but it does not feel like that much of a game breaker. Honestly, Moment of Glory is more likely to cause a this shit is broken response unless you the team gets killed over and over again. I generally use it more like just an area heal, except for that one time I used it against a DM penis extension character, with hilarious results.

Lago PARANOIA wrote: You don't need to hit with Moment of Glory. It's in the Effect line, so it goes off regardless. You don't even need a holy symbol for it to work.

I was doing it wrong and my cleric was still powerful as all hell. Awesome.

Lago PARANOIA wrote: As far as the Provoke Overreach/Diabolical Strategem thing goes, you need a Timeless Locket (AV2). It has a daily power that lets you take an extra standard action as a minor action. Then you'll be able to pull the trick for 4 encounters out of a 5 encounter workday.

But that's not until level 17 or so isn't it.

Lago PARANOIA wrote: I don't see what's so bad about level 6. It's a good level; it has a utility power that gives me a +3 bonus to attack until the end of my next turn as a minor action. It also gives the same bonus to bloodied allies, but it's really designed for me.

It's not bad, although you are mostly cruising on the stuff you got at first level, but your combo comes online at 7 so waiting another level seemed better.

Lago PARANOIA wrote: I mentioned that this character isn't a healer; he's a force multiplier. You will still need another primary healer/attacker in the party to get the most out of your surges. Which means that you need to have a melee artificer, a melee bard, or a razor cleric.

Actually you said under summary

Lago PARANOIA wrote: while the character is function as a primary healer, they are not as efficient as a post-Divine Power razor cleric dedicated to the task

I assumed you meant can function as a primary healer, but you are not quite in English there.

Lago PARANOIA wrote: Anyway, here are the Spiked Shield shenanigans; you can get a Spiked Shield with the Weapon Proficiency feat. It functions as both a weapon and a light shield, giving you a +1 shield bonus to AC and reflex. There is the Rhythm Blade property in the AV2 (level 3 item) which as a property you can put on a light blade or heavy blade increases any shield bonus you get by 1.

I don't get the shield ac bonus when I equip a spiked shield with the builder, though I do get the bonus from defensive weapons. Does it say it counts as a light shield for defensive purposes in the book? Because being able to equip a light shield as a strength 8 character would be great.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:41 am

Fair enough. I really don't think is consecrated ground is all that bad if you don't exploit it. Just leave it be until the team is close to being TPK, then use it to keep the game from ending. Its unique in that it is even more powerful than sleep but it does not feel like that much of a game breaker. Honestly, Moment of Glory is more likely to cause a this shit is broken response unless you the team gets killed over and over again. I generally use it more like just an area heal, except for that one time I used it against a DM penis extension character, with hilarious results.

Yeah, Moment of Glory is more overpowered than Consecrated Ground when you get it (but just barely), but it levels off to just 'good' later on your life, while Consecrated Ground simply continues to get more and more crazy (seriously, a hit point pool of -60? You'd be hard-press to get monsters specifically gangbanging a party member to reach that in one turn). It's sort of like Sleep vs. Flaming Sphere; at low levels, Flaming Sphere is better for killing even if you're an orb wizard, but it levels off to a sane level later on.

By the way, I screwed up big-time. You can't take Polearm gamble and a spear. You can take Polearm Momentum and a spear, but not Gamble. So you're left with a choice: Keep the shield and spear, don't use Gamble. Or you can blow the feat you were going to spend on WP: Spiked Shield to WP: Greatspear. Which does deprive you of a sweet +2 to AC (which you honestly need, esp. with Polearm Gamble) but you do get to use a Greatspear. +2 to damage per die, +1 to attack. Important for Warlord powers.

But that's [Timeless Locket] not until level 17 or so isn't it.

It's actually a level 14 item, so thanks for catching the other big screw-up; I thought you could get it at a lower level, so that's why I didn't include it in the advancement summary. But you can't.

That does put a serious crimp in the strategery. I'll need to research a way to force enemies to attack you before then, so, I'll get back to you on that.

shau wrote: I assumed you meant can function as a primary healer, but you are not quite in English there.

Yeah, I meant to say can. This character is no worse off than any other leader class that didn't get to stack healing bonus items until now; it's just that the cleric is so good at it now that they make everyone look like chumps, so if you do have a razor cleric around why bother unless you really need to dig into your healing reserves?

shau wrote:
I don't get the shield ac bonus when I equip a spiked shield with the builder, though I do get the bonus from defensive weapons. Does it say it counts as a light shield for defensive purposes in the book? Because being able to equip a light shield as a strength 8 character would be great.

Spiked shields are from AV1. They function as weapons, but they also function exactly like light shields (so +1 shield bonus to AC and reflex). They can be enchanted as weapons. The Rhythm Blade property (which you can get for the cost of a level 3 item) can, when applied to a light or heavy blade, increase any shield bonus you get to AC and reflex by 1.

If there's something wrong, it's the CB, not the 'exploit'. It's not even really much of an exploit; it saves you the cost of a feat if you don't already have light shield proficiency. It's very nice for dual-implement users since they can still apply the property of the magical item that's in their shield hand even if they can't attack with it, but for you it just saves the cost of a feat. If you were a full-on Warlord it'd be a complete wash in fact.

The Spiked Shield Rhythm blade trick is really for people who can't afford a strength score and/or do not already have shield proficiency. So it actually works awesome for Laser Clerics.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:45 am

Sadly, I think the char builder is right here.

From a reread of the AV description, and PHB 213-214 and looking over a wizards board thread to find Rhythm Blade's wording: You need to be proficient in light shields to get the bonus. You don't get the shield bonus if you aren't proficient with a shield, and rhythm blade only *increases* your shield bonus, it does not "grant" one.

While the property does not care whether you have SWP : Spiked Shield, you need to either have Proficiency Light Shield or scam a shield bonus some other way to get the additional +1 from the property.

This is 4e. Avoiding attacks is impossible.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:14 am

Josh wrote:You need to be proficient in light shields to get the bonus. You don't get the shield bonus if you aren't proficient with a shield,

That's why you have proficiency in the Spiked Shield?

Of course, the CB might be wrong, but even without the RB part just having proficiency in that particular spiked shield is enough. Which makes sense, because otherwise characters with just light shield proficiency would be able to claim the shield bonus to AC from it, they just wouldn't be able to attack with it.

Which works out the same for our character. They either need WP: Spiked Shield or Light Shield Proficiency and never need to attack with their spiked shield.

shau · Post by **shau** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:55 pm

Is it me or does Bravura Presence have nothing preventing it from stacking with itself? Would a team of five Bravura warlords actually fire off four extra attacks after every time they spend an action point?

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:37 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:
Josh wrote:You need to be proficient in light shields to get the bonus. You don't get the shield bonus if you aren't proficient with a shield,
That's why you have proficiency in the Spiked Shield?

Of course, the CB might be wrong, but even without the RB part just having proficiency in that particular spiked shield is enough. Which makes sense, because otherwise characters with just light shield proficiency would be able to claim the shield bonus to AC from it, they just wouldn't be able to attack with it.

AV page 9 wrote: SUPERIOR MELEE WEAPONS
One-Handed
....
....
Spiked shield3 +2 d6 — 10 gp 7 lb. Light blade Off-hand
.....

3 This weapon is combined with a light shield. See description.

Ergo, the Spiked Shield is an off-hand light blade which is combined with a light shield.

As a weapon Spiked Shield by itself confers no shield bonus (if it did, it would have the defensive property like the parrying dagger)

AV page 10 wrote: Spiked Shield: This light shield is constructed
with a sharpened spike at its center. A spiked shield
can be enchanted as a magic shield or a magic
weapon, but not both. A spiked shield enchanted as
a magic weapon does not occupy a character’s magic
item arms slot. Although a character cannot use
two shields at the same time, a character wielding
a spiked shield enchanted as a weapon can employ
arms slot items such as bracers.

If 4e designers could write, what they mean to say is: it takes up the off-hand weapon slot, not the arm/shield slot. But you can only get the benefit of one shield at a time.

That only changes the slot it goes into, it does not override the rules about proficiency.

PHB 213-214 wrote: Shields grant
a shield bonus that you add to your AC and to your
Reflex defense. If you’re not proficient with a shield,
you don’t gain the shield bonus to your AC or Reflex
defense.

That is ambiguous when combined with the terminology in the Spiked Shield entry, where they use "Spiked Shield" to mean both the weapon which is combined with the shield and the combination item within one page of each other. You're assuming that SWP: Spiked Shield counts as being proficient with a shield - and seeing as it is proficiency with a shield, that seems reasonable. Conversely, the char builder is obviously interpreting SWP: Spiked Shield to apply to only the weapon part deciding that SWP: Spiked Shield does not grant you the armor bonus as Light Shield Proficiency would - and seeing as "add an enhancement bonus" means it stacks but "gain an enhancement bonus" means it doesn't, that seems within the hair-splitting that is 4e terminology.

Which works out the same for our character. They either need WP: Spiked Shield or Light Shield Proficiency and never need to attack with their spiked shield

Save for the Str preq and the way 4e feat prereqs combine with a gimped point-buy to make many feats inaccessible to builds that weren't planned 20 levels in advance. I hate you Mike Mearls.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:31 pm

shau wrote: Is it me or does Bravura Presence have nothing preventing it from stacking with itself? Would a team of five Bravura warlords actually fire off four extra attacks after every time they spend an action point?

Sure, why not? Otherwise it was unnecessarily punish people who doubled up on the same class.

Josh wrote: Save for the Str preq and the way 4e feat prereqs combine with a gimped point-buy to make many feats inaccessible to builds that weren't planned 20 levels in advance. I hate you Mike Mearls.

That's just the name of the game. It's why no one plays Artful Dodger rogues or Thaneborn Barbarians.